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Thread: Namibian Name Database

  1. #21
    miltonlouw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Namibian Name Database

    Probably you right. I do not get the difference. It is okay for anyone to have your private information but publishing its is wrong - just don't work for me.

    Please just help me though with "people's rights to privacy"?
    For interest: Privacy can be understood as an individual right: to control the communication of personal information, and as a property right. As a property right, data are alienable and thus all privacy rights can be lost. On the internet today, we live under a property rights regime.


    I suspect that most people believe that they have more rights to privacy than the law can or would recognise.

    Cheers

  2. #22
    Galaxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Namibian Name Database

    I see what you mean. You raise some interesting legal and philosophical questions and I would say that, of course it is not OK for anyone to hold private information, and publishing it is wrong. I firmly believe that as a free people we have the right to life, liberty and property. Our Constitution guarantees this. And we cannot have any one of these rights without having the other two. Further, and this is the important part with respect to this discussion, there is no right to privacy without the right to life, liberty and property. Since I have these, though, and since they are guaranteed and protected by the Consitution, I also have the right to privacy. Any future laws will have to take this into account, and I am sure that they will. And here is why, Milton, in the words of Larrey Anderson, a philosopher:

    What Is Privacy?


    According to Webster's, "privacy" is "the state of being private;" and "private" is that which either (a) "belongs to some particular person or person," or (b) is "restricted to some particular person or persons."

    Definition (a) is clearly a reference to some form of property. What belongs to me are my belongings. I can use the word "belong" in the metaphorical sense of property if I say to my daughter, "You belong to our family." Since my daughter is not my property, what I mean when I say my daughter belongs to our family is that my daughter is restricted to membership in one particular family.

    Looking closely at (b) we see that a thing, a person, or an activity can be restricted to some other particular person or persons in three ways: by definition, by tradition, or by law. My daughter's family membership happens to fit all three. She is a member of our family by definition, by tradition, and by law.

    What we are most concerned with is the last option - the law. How is a thing, a person, or an activity restricted to some other particular person or persons by the law?[2]

    Once again, the first thought and example that comes to mind is property. Things are restricted to some person or persons through ownership. By enforcing legal contracts (say, that of purchasing a house), the government restricts the ownership of that home to the buyer. So in restricting the ownership of a house to the buyer, the government protects the privacy of that buyer.

    The restriction of one person to another person has a long history - mostly of abuse. Not so long ago in the United States, some persons (slaves and, in some instances, women and children) could be "restricted" to other persons as property or chattel. Since the Fifth Amendment clearly protects "life, liberty or property" these types of restriction cannot be constitutional.[3]

    There are, however, many traditional types of voluntary restrictions between two parties. The most obvious examples are marital and business contracts where one person consents to limit and share certain of his or her activities solely with another person.[4]

    This brings us to the third, the most difficult and contentious, aspect: the legal restriction of private activities. We can break this down into two questions: (1) How does a government's restriction of a person's activities make those activities private? And (2) how can the state insure that those private activities are protected?

    In order to fully answer question (1) we would first have to settle a centuries old dispute: Does the law forbid everything it does not specifically allow or does the law allow everything it does not specifically forbid? For the purposes of this discussion, we will assume that the American tradition follows the second interpretation of the nature of the law; i.e., private activities are lawful unless they are specifically prohibited.

    Notice what follows from this assumption. Private acts cannot be restricted, in any manner, by the state. In a sense, all legal acts of individuals are private acts and the government, since the acts are legal, may restrict none of them. State restriction of a person's activity does not make the activity private - it makes it illegal - and, thus, public.

    Another example of a contract will help make this clear. If I agree to build your house and you agree to pay me to build your house then I restrict my activity to the pounding of nails, etc., on your property. The choice and the activity are private. The state has nothing to do with the private nature of our agreement. The government intervenes only if I fail to perform the promised activity or you fail to pay.

    There are, of course, exceptions to this general rule. Sometimes the state does directly restrict our activities - keeping our private activities isolated to specific private places. This usually occurs out of concern for public health, public safety, or public peace. But these restrictions, which appear to be exceptions to the rule that all individual activity is private activity, exist only on the basis of the principle that there is no privacy without property.

    Here are some examples of these exceptions and how the exceptions prove the rule. I may be naked when I take a shower in my home or apartment but I may not run naked through a public square. For reasons of public health and tranquility, my nakedness, and thus my privacy, is restricted by the state to my abode. Similarly, I may drink alcohol in my home, or at the local pub, but I may not drink in my car while driving on a public road. In this instance, for reasons of public safety, the government restricts my activity to a designated area, and, once again, in restricting my activity the government restricts my privacy.

    This is the important point: without the existence and protection of private property there is no place for the government to restrict my private activities to. This point needs to be reemphasized. Whenever the state restricts a private activity, thus limiting the activity to a specific site, if there is no private property (no specific site) then there is no place in which that activity can occur. Prisons are not private.[5]

    Imagine we live in a regime that has promised to guarantee to each of its citizens an absolute right to a (naked) shower. All private showers are immediately confiscated because someone might be able to get an unauthorized look. The regime builds a series of single stall showers in a tightly controlled environment. Guards are stationed at various locations to insure privacy. But guards are only human - and curious - and they might steal a glance. The guards must have supervisors. But the supervisors might collude with the guards to take a peak, so we will need someone else to watch the watchers' watchers. And so on, ad infinitum.

    The moral of this story is that it is naive to assert the state can protect our privacy without protecting the intervening instrument of private property. In a free state, there is no more efficient and effective vehicle that the government can use to protect privacy than by enforcing the right to private property.

    We can now begin to answer some of the questions we have been considering in Part 2. (1) How does a government's restriction of a person's activities make those activities private? The answer, leaving aside the narrow issue of public health and safety, is that it does not and it cannot. Generally speaking, the state's restrictions of a person's activities make those activities illegal and public - rather than private. Even the Rose Bowl is a private event. I can buy a ticket and go to the game or not. My participation, and everyone else's participation, in the game is a private activity. A speech given in a public square is a private event. Both the speaker and the members of the audience are free to quit the activity at will. The event may be called "public;" but the decision to attend is private. The restriction of the participants' activity to the event is self-imposed. A truly public meeting would be one in which the state forced all of its members to attend. [6]

    (2) How can the state insure that private activities are protected? The answer should be obvious: only by protecting private property. Property is tangible and easily defined. This makes property, relative to an abstract concept like privacy, easy to protect. And this leads us to the answer to the question, "What is privacy?" Privacy is an amorphous and intimate concept.[7] But property is not. The government cannot guarantee our right to privacy, without protecting our right to property, because each of us continually and constantly redefines what privacy is as we go about the day-to-day activities of our lives.
    There is nothing wrong with publishing private information as long as you have the person's consent to do so. But you don't, not in this case. There may be no legal obligation for you to obtain people's consent, but equally neither have they given it to you and neither have you sought it. Your right to publish informatino in this case directly impedes my right to provacy. And my right to my own privacy, my property, supersedes your right to publish this information.

    Just because there is no legal obligation to seek consent does not give you the right to a) hold it and b) publish it. Similarly, just because thee is no law against selling bogus insirance policies or such like does not give you the moral right to then go and do so - except if you don't have a consience and are motivated by greed (Which as we know a lot of people are).

    We have to distinguish between holding the information, and publishing it, or making it public. In both case, I think, consent has to be obtained, for moral reasons and because it make sense. Usually this is done in the form of the small print on contracts. The reason it would make sense to seek and obtain consent right from the start is this: Consider your register comes off the ground and all the relevant laws are in place, and the laws clearly state that you have to seek consent. You would then have to go and seek consent, right? But what if the law also says that as a matter of principle nobody may hold private information about anybody else without their consent? Then I could challenge you and say: Hold on, how did you get my information without my consent in the first instance? This is where the database is a non-starter: The legal basis for its very existence, for its right to exist, does not exist. I realyl think you should do it the other way around: Clean the database, draw up a contract and invite people to share their data.

    I say again: Pull he plug - at least remove it from the Internet. It is the right thing to do.
    Last edited by Galaxy; 7th April 2009 at 03:12 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Namibian Name Database

    Interesting really, Milton makes a dent with his moving and shaking.....Is Milton Namibia's seceret agency, whose mandate is concerned with centralised data? Reasons for having centralised data in any business setup is to gain business intelligence, hence of fellow countrymen would have to be gaining control of....you fill the blanks!

    Else I referrred to the contraversial site here: This domain has been rejected for the following reason http//miltonlouwnxservenet is not being used Do not submit sites that are not being used

    This domain has been rejected for the following reason:
    http://miltonlouw.nxserve.net is not being used. Do not submit sites that are not being used.


    Of course not working right now. Question, how does this effort of Louw compare with who is who of Namibia? is it the people behind it that gets tolerated on 'gathering intelligence' on its citizens?OR is it the methods they employ at gathering the said info? Are there any other variant versions of the Milton idea? Other question: would online phenemona like phising be subjected to the mentioned act's 'jurisdiction'? Would there be enough know-how to control such? cute indeed....


    Really interesting initiative, makes one think, Namibia is such a small place, I have worked with so many people in the Nam, wonder what type of intelligence I can gather from this knowledge alone? Can it have commercial use for me ;-) ?,LOL.....

    Ja nee, movers and shakers Namstyle it is, clearly Mie1, our distinguished journalist, is really taken with Milton not? I am just surprised he did not consider the possible implications for his buddy plus neglected to advise or caution on those

    Any court cases forthcoming from this yet? Funky aight!!!
    Last edited by juikk; 7th April 2009 at 06:43 PM.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Namibian Name Database

    After thought, next time Milton, the best to do in cases such as this is to create the site, generate traffic through interesting e-strategies, and ALLOW the pips of Nam to submit their data/data they are comfortable with to your site, this way, the matter/concern of privacy/permission to data has been taken care of....
    Sort of like the business models of job agencies, such as Jobs Unlimited...you WILLINGLY submit you CV online, coz they can expose it to potential employers... the key is to sell a BENEFIT to your target market of course....

    E.g. if I wish to create say an e-club/e-disco, etc, I would publish my URL at funky parties/tertiary institutes/places where youth hangouts are, then attract the correct crowd....the more traffic I generate, the more commercial value such an innitiative can have...go on boy, put your inginuity to good use....

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Namibian Name Database

    Hi juikk

    Off the top of my head:

    1.) More than this is available on Facebook;

    2.) Much more than this is available at the courts (public property), the daily papers and/or the credit agencies - the latter also on the internet!!

    So, it is OK if you possess a password for accessing the information or if you pay for it ... but not if it is free of charge?

    Really, my dear, it is only names and dates of birth!!!!

    Oh, BTW, Google your name (or anybody else's) and you will see just how much information is available on many of us .....

    Looking though the 3 pages so far, I only see very few people who object. Does that mean that none of the others feel as strongly about it or as asinine about? The phrase laissez faire in its broadest sense pops to mind.
    Last edited by Mie1; 8th April 2009 at 09:17 AM. Reason: an addition

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Namibian Name Database

    By coincidence: Another article which shows that Milton is not talking through his hatabout a wealth of personal information being available on the web already:

    Kiwi judge follows Australian Facebook precedent


    March 16, 2009


    A New Zealand judge has approved the serving of court documents through the social networking website Facebook on a man being sued over his business dealings.

    High Court associate justice David Glendall approved the serving of legal papers on Craig Axe, who is alleged to have taken $NZ241,000 from his family's market garden company account.

    Axe was believed to be in Britain but had been corresponding by email and was known to have a site on Facebook, the court in Wellington was told.

    Daniel Vincent, the lawyer for the family company who requested the use of Facebook, said there had been difficulties serving the papers, informing Axe that he is being sued, by conventional methods.

    He told the New Zealand Press Association after the hearing he believed it was first time a court in this country had allowed papers to be served through Facebook.

    The idea came from a case in Australia in December, when Facebook was used to serve a court order after a couple defaulted on a home loan.

    Facebook was also used by police in the New Zealand tourist hub Queenstown in January to help identify a bungling burglar who removed his face mask as he tried unsuccessfully to break into the safe of a local bar.

    Footage from a surveillance camera was posted on the site, leading to the burglar's identification and arrest.

    AFP

    The other is an reaction to this in Afrikaans in : "Die Burger": Pas op vir dagvaardings op Facebook

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Namibian Name Database

    the only harm i have seen so far with this information is discovering that my freind has a funny middle name and joking with him about it.

    i also found that i may have a relative in this country with the same unique spelling of my surname but let's hope this is the end of this experiment.
    power corrupts , absolute power spends my taxes on really really stupid things.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Namibian Name Database

    I've stayed out of this one so far, but can't keep quiet and agree with Omer. I think that in the absence of laws and regulations it is probably best to stop the experiment.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Namibian Name Database

    Dude, Omer,

    I agree mostly, but can't help to take another dig at the storm in a tea cup of the oh so vociferous minority. It simply tickles the cockles of my heart:

    Did you know:


    • In large cities, Americans are photographed on the average of 20 times a day.
    • Everything you charge is in a database that police, among others, can look at.
    • Supermarkets track what you purchase and sell the information to direct-mail marketing firms.
    • Your employer is allowed to read your E-Mail, and if you use your company's health insurance to purchase drugs, your employer has access to that information.
    • Government computers scan your E-Mail for subversive language.
    • Your cell phone calls can be intercepted, and your access numbers can be cribbed by eavesdroppers with police scanners.
    • You register your whereabouts every time you use an ATM, credit card, or use EZ PASS at a toll booth.
    • You are often being watched when you visit web sites. Servers know what you're looking at, what you download, and how long you stay on a page.
    • A political candidate found his career destroyed by a newspaper that published a list of all the videos he had ever rented.
    • Most "baby monitors" can be intercepted 100 feet outside the home.
    • Intelligence agencies now have "micro-bots" -- tiny, remote control, electronic "bugs" that literally can fly into your home and look around without your noticing.
    • Anyone with $100 can tap your phone.
    • a new technology called TEMPEST can intercept what you are typing on your keypad (from 100 feet away through a cement wall.)
    • the National Security Agency has a submarine that can intercept and decipher digital communications from the RF emissions of underwater phone cables.


    This was taken from : Secrets»Bizarre Facts From Digital Fortress»Did You Know?»Official Website of Dan Brown .... and - obviously - mainly refers to the US of A. I can't imagine, however, that other countries are far behind in this game ......
    Last edited by Mie1; 11th April 2009 at 09:30 AM. Reason: Highlights

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Namibian Name Database

    The problem: The last Cookie

    Problems comes with sollutions. B2B trade fair models for the Internet World and for internet professionals as a forum on decision-makers, for the providers and users.

    The perfect sale is a cheap sale. A consortuim of eleven account, directory and publishing agencies under the banner of Sevenone take over in May of 2007 the most of the mother concern where Pro-Sieben did not notice the option SAT-1 daughter take.

    Or ist it perhaps the case with more joy with deals?

    You make out of this storm in a tea cup situation a big debate.

    The quality of honey is beter now that no more harmful substances are found.

    Can we by any chance gene-modify the tolerance borders, GVO können sich nämlich vermehren, die Pollen im Honig können das nicht.

    Let us look out of the box for a moment.

    Zeit, sich was Gutes zu tun! Clever kochen, besser essen.

    oder

    Schaffen Sie sich Ihre Oase!

    Compare the Aussie laws with Namibia, you get to wake up, ...
    Last edited by pangkas; 11th April 2009 at 10:41 PM.
    pangkas

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